Billions for Bankers–Debts for the People

by Pastor Sheldon Emry


“The love of money is the root of all evil.” (1 Tim. 6:10) “If thou lend money to any of my people that is poor by thee, thou shalt not be to him as an usurer, neither shalt thou lay upon him usury.” Exodus 22:25

“Take no usury of him, or increase…thou shalt not give him thy money upon usury.” Leviticus 25:36-67

“Unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon usury: That the Lord thy God may bless thee.” Deuteronomy 23:20

In the early Church, any interest on debt was considered usury.

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.” — Thomas Jefferson

Three Types Of Conquest

History reveals nations can be conquered by the use of one or more of three methods. The most common is conquest by war. In time, though, this method usually falls, because the captives hate the captors and rise up and drive them out if they can. Much force is needed to maintain control, making it expensive for the conquering nation.

A second method is by religion, where men are convinced they must give their captors part of their earnings as “obedience to God.” Such a captivity is vulnerable to philosophical exposure or by overthrow by armed force, since religion by its nature lacks military force to regain control, once its captives become “disillusioned.”

The third method can be called economic conquest. It takes place when nations are placed under “tribute” without the use of visible force or coercion, so that the victims do not realize they have been conquered. “Tribute” is collected from them in the form of “legal” debts and taxes, and they believe they are paying it for their own good, for the good of others, or to protect all from some enemy. Their captors become their “benefactors” and “protectors.” Although this is the slowest to impose, it is often quite long-lasting, as the captives do not see any military force arrayed against them, their religion is left more or less intact, they have freedom to speak and to travel, and they participate in “elections” for their rulers. Without realizing it, they are conquered, and the instruments of their own society are used to transfer their wealth to their captors and make the conquest complete. In 1900 the average American worker paid few taxes and had little debt.

Last year payments on debts and taxes took more than half of what he earned. Is it possible a form of conquest has been imposed on our people?

Read the following pages and decide for yourself. And may God have mercy on this once debt-free and great nation… – Sheldon Emry

Billions for the Bankers, Debts for the People

In 1901 the national debt of the United States was less than $1 billion. It stayed at less than $1 billion until we got into World War I. Then it jumped to $25 billion.

The national debt nearly doubled between World War I and World War II, increasing from $25 to $49 billion.

Between 1942 and 1952, the debt zoomed from $72 billion to $265 billion. In 1962 it was $303 billion. By 1970, the debt had increased to $383 billion.

Between 1971 and 1976 it rose from $409 billion to $631 billion. The debt experienced its greatest growth, however, during the 1980s, fueled by an unprecedented peacetime military buildup. In 1998, the outstanding public debt will roar past $5.5 trillion.

The unconstitutional “share” of this debt for every man, woman and child is currently $20,594.86 and will continue to increase an average of $630 million every day, which dosn’t include the $26 trillion in individual credit card debts, mortgages, automobile leases and so on.

The Outstanding Public Debt as of 08/25/98 at 10:28:37 AM PDT is:

The estimated population of the United States is 270,374,697
so each citizen’s share of this debt is $20,403.90.

Today, as we stand before the dawn of a New World Order run by internationalist financiers, most of the revenue collected by the Federal government in the form of individual income taxes will go straight to paying the interest on the debt alone. At the rate the debt is increasing, eventually we’ll reach a point where, even if the government takes every penny of its citizens’ income via taxation, it will still not collect enough to keep up with the interest payments.

The government will own nothing, the people will own nothing, and the banks will own everything. The New World Order will foreclose on America.

If the present trend continues, and there is no evidence whatsoever that it will not continue, we can expect the national debt to nearly double again within the next six to eight years. By then, the interest on the debt alone should be in the $400 billion a year range.

Prologue: Three Types of Conquest

History reveals nations can be conquered by the use of one or more of three methods.

The most common is conquest by war. In time, though, this method usually fails, because the captives hate the captors and rise up and drive them out if they can. Much force is needed to maintain control, making it expensive for the conquering nation.

A second method is by religion, where men are convinced they must give their captors part of their earnings as “obedience to God.” Such a captivity is vulnerable to philosophical exposure or by overthrow by armed force, since religion by its nature lacks military force to regain control, once its captives become disillusioned.

The third method can be called economic conquest. It takes place when nations are placed under “tribute” without the use of visible force or coercion, so that the victims do not realize they have been conquered. “Tribute” is collected from them in the form of “legal” debts and taxes, and they believe they are paying it for their own good, for the good of others, or to protect all from some enemy. Their captors become their “benefactors” and “protectors”.

Although this is the slowest to impose. It is often quite long lasting, as the captives do not see any military force arrayed against them, their religion is left more or less intact, they have freedom to speak and travel, and they participate in “elections” for their rulers. Without realizing it, they are conquered, and the instruments of their own society are used to transfer their wealth to their captors and make the conquest complete.

In 1900 the average American worker paid few taxes and had little debt. Last year, payments on debts and taxes took more than half of what he earned. Is it possible a form of conquest has been imposed on America? Read the following pages and decide for yourself. And may God have mercy on this once debt-free and great nation.

The Real Story of Money Control in America

Americans, living in what is called the richest nation on earth, seem always to be short of money. It’s impossible for many families to make ends meet unless both parents are in the work force.
Men and women hope for overtime hours or take part time jobs evenings and weekends; children look for odd jobs for spending money; the family debt climbs higher.

Psychologists say one of the biggest causes of family quarrels and breakups is “arguing over money.” Much of this trouble can be traced to our present “debt-money” system.

Too few Americans realize why the Founders wrote into Article I of the U. S. Constitution:

“Congress shall have the power to coin money and regulate the value thereof.” — Thomas Jefferson

They did this, as we will show, in the hope that it would prevent “love of money” from destroying the Republic they had founded. We shall see how subversion of Article I has brought on us the “evil” of which God warns us in 1 Timothy 6:10.

Money is “Created”, Not Grown or Built.

Economists use the term “create” when speaking of the process by which money comes into existence. “Creation” means making something which did not exist before. Lumber workers make boards from trees, workers build houses from lumber, and factories manufacture automobiles from metal, glass and other materials. But in all these they did not actually “create.”

They only changed existing materials into a more usable and, therefore, more valuable form. This is not so with money. Here, and here alone, man actually “creates” something out of nothing. A piece of paper of little value is printed so that it is worth a piece of lumber. With different figures it can buy the automobile or even the house. It’s value has been “created” in the truest sense of the word.

“Creating” money is very profitable!

As is seen by the above, money is very cheap to make, and whoever does the “creating” of money in a nation can make a tremendous profit. Builders work hard to make a profit of 5 percent above their cost to build a house.

Auto makers sell their cars for 1 percent to 2 percent above the cost of manufacture and it is considered good business. But money “manufactures” have no limit on their profits, since a few cents will print a $1 bill or a $10,000 bill.

That profit is part of our story, but first let consider another unique characteristic of the thing — money, the love of which is the “root of all evil”.

Adequate money supply needed

An adequate supply of money is indispensable to civilized society. We could forego many other things, but without money industry would grind to a halt, farms would become only self-sustaining units, surplus food would disappear, jobs requiring the work of more than one man or one family would remain undone, shipping and large movement of goods would cease, hungry people would plunder and kill to remain alive, and all government except family or tribe would cease to function.

An overstatement, you say? Not at all. Money is the blood of civilized society, the means of all commercial trade except simple barter. It is the measure and the instrument by which one product is sold and another purchased. Remove money or even reduce the supply below that which is necessary to carry on current levels of trade, and the results are catastrophic.

For an example, we need only look at America’s depression of the early 1930′s.

Bankers’ Depression of the 1930′s.

In 1930 America did not lack industrial capacity, fertile farmlands, skilled and willing workers or industrious families. It had an extensive and efficient transportation system in railroads, road networks, and inland and ocean waterways. Communications between regions and localities were the best in the world, utilizing telephone, teletype, radio, and a well operated government mail system.

No war had ravaged the cities or the countryside, no pestilence weakened the population, nor had famine stalked the land. The United States of America in 1930 lacked only one thing: an adequate supply of money to carry on trade and commerce.

In the early 1930s, bankers, the only source of new money and credit, deliberately refused loans to industries, stores and farms. Payments on existing loans were required however, and money rapidly disappeared from circulation. Goods were available to be purchased, jobs waiting to be done, but the lack of money brought the nation to a standstill.

By this simple ploy America was put in a “depression” and bankers took possession of hundreds of thousands of farms, homes, and business properties. The people were told, “times are hard” and “money is short.” Not understanding the system, they were cruelly robbed of their earnings, their savings, and their property.

No Money for Peace, but Plenty for War.

World War II ended the “depression.” The same Bankers who in the early 1930′s had no loans for peacetime houses, food and clothing, suddenly had unlimited billions to lend for army barracks, K-rations and uniforms.

A nation that in 1934 could not produce food for sale, suddenly could produce bombs to send free to Germany and Japan! (More on this riddle later).

With the sudden increase in money, people were hired, farms sold their produce, factories went to two shifts, mines reopened, and “The Great Depression” was over!

Some politicians were blamed for it and others took credit for ending it. The truth is the lack of money (caused by Bankers) brought on the depression, and adequate money ended it. The people were never told that simple truth and in this article we will endeavor to show how these same bankers who control our money and credit have used their control to plunder America and place us in bondage.

Power to Coin and Regulate Money

When we can see the disastrous results of an artificially created shortage of money, we can better understand why our Founding Fathers, who understood both money and God’s Laws, insisted on placing the power to “create” money and the power to control it ONLY in the hands of the Federal Congress.

They believed that ALL Citizens should share in the profits of its “creation” and therefore the Federal government must be the only creator of money. They further believed that all citizens, of whatever state, territory or station in life, would benefit by an adequate and stable currency. Therefore, the Federal government must also be, by law, the only controller of the value of money.

Since the Federal Congress was the only legislative body subject to all the citizens at the ballot box, it was, to their minds, the only safe depository of so much profit and so much power. They wrote it out in simple, but all inclusive manner: “Congress shall have the power to Coin Money and Regulate the Value Thereof.”

How We Lost Control of the Federal Reserve

Instead of the Constitutional method of creating our money and putting it into circulation, we now have an entirely unconstitutional system. This has brought our country to the brink of disaster, as we shall see.

Since our money was handled both legally and illegally before 1913, we shall consider only the years following 1913, since from that year on, all of our money had been created and issued by an illegal method that will eventually destroy the United States if it is not changed. Prior to 1913, America was a prosperous, powerful, and growing nation, at peace with its neighbors and the envy of the world. But in December of 1913, Congress, with many members away for the Christmas Holidays, passed what has since been known as the Federal Reserve Act. (For the full story of how this infamous legislation was forced through our Congress, read “Conquest or Consent”, by W. D. Vennard).

Omitting the burdensome details, it simply authorized the establishment of a Federal Reserve Corporation, run by a Board of Directors (The Federal Reserve Board). The act divided the United States into 12 Federal Reserve “Districts.”

This simple, but terrible, law completely removed from Congress the right to “create” money or to have any control over its “creation”, and gave that function to The Federal Reserve Corporation. It was accompanied by the appropriate fanfare. The propaganda claimed that this would “remove money from politics” (they did not say “and therefore from the people’s control”)and prevent “boom and bust” economic activity from hurting our citizens.

The people were not told then, and most still do not know today, that the Federal Reserve Corporation is a private corporation controlled by bankers and therefore is operated for the financial gain of the bankers over the people rather than for the good of the people. The word “Federal” was used only to deceive the people.

More Disastrous than Pearl Harbor

Since that “day of infamy”, more disastrous to us than Pearl Harbor, the small group of “privileged” people who lend us “our” money have accrued to themselves all of the profits of printing our money — and more! Since 1913 they have “created” tens of billions of dollars in money and credit, which, as their own personal property, they can lend to our government and our people at interest (usury).

“The rich get richer and the poor get poorer” had become the secret policy of the Federal government. An example of the process of “creation” and its conversion to peoples “debt” will aid our understanding.

Billions in Interest Owed to Private Banks

We shall start with the need for money. The Federal Government, having spent more than it has taken from its citizens in taxes, needs, for the sake of illustration, $1,000,000,000. Since it does not have the money, and Congress has given away its authority to “create” it, the Government must go to the “creators” for the $1 billion.

But, the Federal Reserve, a private corporation, does not just give its money away! The Bankers are willing to deliver $1,000,000,000 in money or credit to the Federal Government in exchange for the government’s agreement to pay it back — with interest. So Congress authorizes the Treasury Department to print $1,000,000,000 in U.S. Bonds, which are then delivered to the Federal Reserve Bankers.

The Federal Reserve then pays the cost of printing the $1 billion (about $1,000) and makes the exchange. The government then uses the money to pay its obligations. What are the results of this fantastic transaction? Well, $1 billion in government bills are paid all right, but the Government has now indebted the people to the bankers for $1 billion on which the people must pay interest!

Tens of thousands of such transactions have taken place since 1913 so that in 1996, the U.S. Government is indebted to the Bankers for more than $5,000,000,000,000 (trillion). Most of the income taxes that we pay as individuals now goes straight into the hands of the bankers, just to pay off the interest alone, with no hope of ever paying off the principle. Our children will be forced into servitude.

But wait! There’s more!

You say, “This is terrible!” Yes, it is, but we have shown only part of the sordid story. Under this unholy system, those United States Bonds have now become “assets” of the banks in the Reserve System which they then use as “reserves” to “create” more “credit” to lend. Current “reserve” requirements allow them to use that $1 billion in bonds to “create” as much as $15 billion in new “credit” to lend to states, municipalities, to individuals and businesses.

Added to the original $1 billion, they could have $16 billion of “created credit” out in loans paying them interest with their only cost being $1,000 for printing the original $1 billion! Since the U.S. Congress has not issued Constitutional money since 1863 (more than 100 years), in order for the people to have money to carry on trade and commerce they are forced to borrow the “created credit” of the Monopoly bankers and pay them usury-interest!


Manipulating Stocks for Fun and Profit

In addition to almost unlimited usury, the bankers have another method of drawing vast amounts of wealth. The banks who control the money at the top are able to approve or disapprove large loans to large and successful corporations to the extent that refusal of a loan will bring about a reduction in the selling price of the corporation’s stock.

After depressing the price, the bankers’ agents buy large blocks of the company’s stock. Then, if the bank suddenly approves a multi-million dollar loan to the company, the stock rises and is then sold for a profit. In this manner, billions of dollars are made with which to buy more stock. This practice is so refined today that the Federal Reserve Board need only announce to the newspapers an increase or decrease in their “discount rate” to send stocks soaring or crashing at their whim.

Using this method since 1913, the bankers and their agents have purchased secret or open control of almost every large corporation in America. Using this leverage, they then force the corporations to borrow huge sums from their banks so that corporate earnings are siphoned off in the form of interest to the banks. This leaves little as actual “profits” which can be paid as dividends and explains why banks can reap billions in interest from corporate loans even when stock prices are depressed. In effect, the bankers get a huge chunk of the profits, while individual stockholders are left holding the bag.

The millions of working families of America are now indebted to the few thousand banking families for twice the assessed value of the entire United States. And these Banking families obtained that debt against us for the cost of paper, ink, and bookkeeping!

The interest amount is never created

The only way new money (which is not true money, but rather credit representing a debt), goes into circulation in America is when it is borrowed from the bankers. When the State and people borrow large sums, we seem to prosper. However, the bankers “create” only the amount of the principal of each loan, never the extra amount needed to pay the interest. Therefore, the new money never equals the new debt added. The amounts needed to pay the interest on loans is not “created,” and therefore does not exist!

Under this system, where new debt always exceeds new money no matter how much or how little is borrowed, the total debt increasingly outstrips the amount of money available to pay the debt. The people can never, ever get out of debt!

The following example will show the viciousness of this interest-debt system via its “built in” shortage of money.

The Tyranny of Compound Interest

When a citizen goes to a banker to borrow $100,000 to purchase a home or a farm, the bank clerk has the borrower agree to pay back the loan plus interest. At 8.25% interest for 30 years, the borrower must agree to pay $751.27 per month for a total of $270,456.00.

The clerk then requires the citizen to assign to the banker the right of ownership of the property if the borrower does not make the required payments. The bank clerk then gives the borrower a $100,000 check or a $100,000 deposit slip, crediting the borrower’s checking account with $100,000.

The borrower then writes checks to the builder, subcontractors, etc. who in turn write checks. $100,000 of new “checkbook” money is thereby added to the “money in circulation.”

However, this is the fatal flaw in the system: the only new money created and put into circulation is the amount of the loan, $100,000. The money to pay the interest is NOT created, and therefore was NOT added to “money in circulation.”

Even so, this borrower (and those who follow him in ownership of the property) must earn and take out of circulation $270,456.00, $170,456.00 more than he put in circulation when he borrowed the original $100,000! (This interest cheats all families out of nicer homes. It is not that they cannot afford them; it is because the bankers’ interest forces them to pay for nearly 3 homes to get one!)

Every new loan puts the same process in operation. Each borrower adds a small sum to the total money supply when he borrows, but the payments on the loan (because of interest) then deduct a much larger sum from the total money supply.

There is therefore no way all debtors can pay off the money lenders. As they pay the principle and interest, the money in circulation disappears. All they can do is struggle against each other, borrowing more and more from the money lenders each generation. The money lenders (bankers), who produce nothing of value, gradually gain a death grip on the land, buildings, and present and future earnings of the whole working population. Proverbs 22:7 has come to pass in America. “The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.”

Small loans do the same thing

If you have not quite grasped the impact of the above, let us consider an auto loan for 5 years at 9.5% interest. Step 1: Citizen borrows $25,000 and pays it into circulation (it goes to the dealer, factory, miner, etc.) and signs a note agreeing to pay the Bankers a total of $31,503 over 5 years. Step 2: Citizen pays $525.05 per month of his earnings to the Banker. In five years, he will remove from circulation $6,503 more than he put in circulation.

Every loan of banker “created” money (credit) causes the same thing to happen. Since this has happened millions of times since 1913 (and continues today), you can see why America has gone from a prosperous, debt-free nation to a debt-ridden nation where practically every home, farm and business is paying usury-tribute to the bankers.

Checking Up On Cash

In the millions of transactions made each year like those just discussed, little actual currency changes hands, nor is it necessary that it do so.

About 95 percent of all “cash” transactions in the U. S. are executed by check. Consider also that banks must only hold 10 percent of their deposits on site in cash at any given time. This means 90 percent of all deposits, though they may actually be held by the ban, are not present in the form of actual cash currency.

That leaves the banker relatively safe to “create” that so-called “loan” by writing the check or deposit slip not against actual money, but against your promise to pay it back! The cost to him is paper, ink and a few dollars of overhead for each transaction. It is “check kiting” on an enormous scale. The profits increase rapidly, year after year.

Our Own Debt is Spiraling into Infinity

In 1910 the U. S. Federal debt was only $1 billion, or $12.40 per citizen. State and local debts were practically non-existent.

By 1920, after only six years of Federal Reserve shenanigans, the Federal debt had jumped to $24 billion, or $228 per person.

In 1960 the Federal debt reached $284 billion, or $1,575 per citizen and state and local debts were mushrooming.

In 1998 the Federal debt passed $5.5 trillion, or $20,403.90 per man, woman and child and is growing exponentially.


Our spiritual master, HIs divine grace A.C Bahktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada has given the solution for the above problems in his translation of the Srimad-Bhagavatam (SB 1.17.40) as follows:

“Even a gold-standard exchange and currency is bad. Gold-standard currency is based on falsehood because the currency is not on a par with the reserved gold. The basic principle is falsity because currency notes are issued in value beyond that of the actual reserved gold. This artificial inflation of currency by the authorities encourages prostitution of the state economy. The price of commodities becomes artificially inflated because of bad money, or artificial currency notes. Bad money drives away good money. Instead of paper currency, actual gold coins should be used for exchange, and this will stop prostitution of gold. Gold ornaments for women may be allowed by control, not by quality, but by quantity. This will discourage lust, envy and enmity. When there is actual gold currency in the form of coins, the influence of gold in producing falsity, prostitution, etc., will automatically cease. There will be no need of an anticorruption ministry for another term of prostitution and falsity of purpose.”

Srila Prabhupada further elaborates on this point in an informal discussion with a few of his decibels one morning:

Los Angeles, December 31, 1973 – Morning Walk

Paper currency: cheaters and the cheated…gold standard is good because it discourages large scale industry and trade…real wealth as cattle and grains

Prajapati: Actually, I was concerned this morning about inflation. The government and the newspapers, they say the biggest problem today is inflation. From our Krsna conscious standpoint, how can we cure this problem of inflation?

Prabhupada: It is very simple. Don’t accept paper currency. It must be gold or some metal worth. Just like one dollar, it must be worth one dollar metal. Then it is solved. But they want to cheat. How it can be solved? Because if I pay you one dollar, I must pay you value for one dollar. But it is the cheating process is going on, “I pay you one dollar, a piece of paper. That’s all.” So you accept cheating, and I also cheat. Government allows. So how the problem can be solved? It is cheating. But the government allows it as law. And you accept, I accept. Then how they can be solved, solution? This is the solution.

Prajapati: In the economy itself there isn’t actually enough money to, that’s even in the banks…

Prabhupada: That is cheating. Therefore I say cheating. I have no money. I give you simply paper. I promise to pay hundred dollars. What is the use of that promise if I have no money? But you want to be cheated. I cheat you. That’s all. You are satisfied of being cheated by me; so I take the advantage and I cheat you. I give you a paper. That’s all.

Bahulasva: Real money is gold and silver.

Prabhupada: Any… It must be value. According to the market price, it must be value. Whatever it may be. Gold is taken, because gold is the most valuable metal. A small piece of gold, it can carry two hundred dollars. But if I give you iron, then you have to bring another, what is called, bus, to carry it. (laughter) So therefore gold standard is accepted everywhere. There is a standard price of gold, so when I pay you money, it must be, carry the value in gold. That’s all. Then there is no inflation. The people want to be cheated, and people cheat. That’s all.

Bahulasva: In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Prabhupada, you say that Kali became gold standardized.

Prabhupada: That is another point. That one who has gold, he can purchase these four kinds of sinful activities: meat-eating, gambling, intoxication, illicit sex. If you have money, you can get illicit sex from big, big quarters. Is it not?

Karandhara: Yes.

Prabhupada: Yes. The sinful activities have increased because the world has produced too much wealth. Because they can purchase sinful activities. And that is being increased by inflation. False money I have got, and with that false money I can purchase all this illicit sex, wine, intoxication, and… It is just like nowadays, bank is giving you a card, “Americard…” What is that?

Karandhara: Charge card. Bank Americard.

Prabhupada: Ah. So you simply show the card, you get the goods. So to exchange, it has become very cheap. So cheaply you can purchase. Therefore cheaply you can purchase sinful things also. The people are becoming sinful. The modern economy is, “Engage people in hard working to produce, and by artificial cheating, secure the goods, commodities.” This is modern economy.

So a worker is getting three thousand dollar per month, but he is getting paper. But he is thinking that “I am getting money.” He is giving his labor, and things are being produced. This is the policy. “Cheat him. Without giving money, give him paper, and get his labor, and produce goods.” This is modern economy. Is it not? A laborer, a worker, is given high salary, high wages. So what he is getting? It is paper. And he is very enthusiastic to give his labor. So production is more. And when you go to purchase the products, then you have to pay again. Whatever you have earned, you have to pay everything, pay to the bank or pay to the man. Simply cheating process is going on…

Prajapati: This is part of our platform. To even run for political office, we need solutions to the problems to offer as a platform. We will draw up various bills, ready for legislation, show them that we are serious.

Prabhupada: So how you’ll present it? The cheating process is going on. Unless you become God conscious, the cheating process will not stop. So there is no solution.

Prajapati: So therefore we introduce bill into the schools to introduce God consciousness to all the children there.

Prabhupada: Yes. God consciousness. Then everyone will be honest, and everything will be adjusted. Everyone can understand this is pure cheating. I give you a hundred dollars, a piece of paper. That’s all. And you accept it. You want to be cheated. You thought, that “I have got now daily, hundred dollars. So let me work very hard.” He does not consider that “I am not getting a hundred dollars. I am getting a piece of paper.” So people have no brain to understand even. “This is not hundred dollars. Give me cash, hundred dollars.” Then everything, solution will be…

There will be no inflation. Because I know that paying you a piece of paper, I can cheat you, therefore I am printing notes, to cheat so many people. Therefore inflation. But when there will be no possibility to cheat you, then there will be no inflation. Here I have got the opportunity, because I know that pushing forward a piece of paper, I can cheat so many people. So there must be inflation. Is it not? This is not psychological? If I know that I can cheat you by this instrument, so why shall I not increase that? That is inflation. What do you think, Karandhara?

Karandhara: That’s the basic principle, yes.

Prabhupada: Yes. I am cheating you, and people accepting my cheating.

Karandhara: The governments actually started the whole thing. They instituted paper money and they instituted it because it is a cheating process. But everyone is participating. So it is just going on and on. That is the real cause of inflation.

Prabhupada: Yes. That’s it. They are getting encouragement in their cheating business.

Bahulasva: They won’t let you have any gold.

Prabhupada: Now they have made law that you cannot store gold?

Karandhara: That’s been since 1933.

Prabhupada: Just see.

Karandhara: Americans cannot own gold, store gold. Pretty soon they are going to pass the same law for silver.

Prabhupada: Just see. Even they cannot have ornaments.

Karandhara: Well, you can have ornaments, jewelry.

Prabhupada: So by law they are cheating. So how you can stop?

Karandhara: Now they have introduced a law that even the penny, which is the smallest denomination, it used to made out of copper, so now they are going to make it out of aluminum, because copper is too expensive.

Prabhupada: Just see.

Bahulasva: It will be worth less than a penny when it is made out of aluminum.

Prabhupada: Why not cement? (laughter) Because by law everything will be acceptable. Make it cement.

Bahulasva: Srila Prabhupada, what can we do to curb down these rascals?

Prabhupada: Chant Hare Krsna.

Bahulasva: That will curb them down.

Prabhupada: Yes. They will be purified. The more you chant Hare Krsna, they will be purified. This is… All problems are there on account of misunderstanding. What we are distributing? We are simply moving misunderstanding and bringing them to knowledge. This is our propaganda. So Mr. Theologician, is this suggestion appealing to you?

Prajapati: It seems all right for ordinary dealings, Srila Prabhupada, having this money, what’s going on, but for large scale transactions it might be very difficult.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Prajapati: And as the practical basis, transactions of thousands and thousands of dollars, would be…

Prabhupada: That will be good for the people. Because large scale transaction is there, therefore the capitalists hoarding. Capitalists hoarding. Goods are there, everything is there. You pay black price, you get it. Then, when somebody’s hoarding, he is not giving to the market. So if the large scale industry and trade becomes stopped, that is good for people.

Jagajjivana: Does that mean the same amount of gold is here?

Prabhupada: No, larger scale… Suppose if you want to store, say, thousand kilos or a thousand bags of rice, so you have to pay me gold. But you have no such gold. Therefore large scale industry will be stopped. Just see.

Karandhara: Then the price of rice would go very low.

Prabhupada: Yes. Then you get actual price and actual value. Goods are there, any part of the world you…, there is enough commodity. But these rascals, they are hoarding, and they are not giving in right time. So people are suffering.

Karandhara: Yes. There’s a… They buy now. They buy the goods before they are even grown, from the commodity market.

Prabhupada: Yes, because they can pay in this paper, the bank will advance. So as soon as you… You have to introduce this metal coins, value. The whole cheating scheme will fail.

Jagajjivana: In the past there was a lot of gold on the planet. What has happened to it? There used to be a lot of gold on the planet?

Prabhupada: Yes. They used as utensil, as household pots. Just like now you are advanced, using plastic, because you have become very advanced. So you are using plastic. They were using gold.

Jagajjivana: So what has happened to that gold?

Prabhupada: What happened? If you keep utensil at home, what happens? You eat nicely on the plate. That’s all. Why you are concerned, what happening? It is in your store. That’s all. And gold is such a metal, any part of the country, any part of the world you go, you get immediately value.

Karandhara: Yes. Whenever there is an economic depression, then gold remains valuable. Just like when the stock market crashed in 1929, if you had gold you could still purchase goods. No matter how bad the economy was, people would accept gold as barter, but not currency.

Prabhupada: Yes. Indian economy was that if you have got extra money, you get gold ornament for your wife. So then your money is stocked there. Or purchase some utensils, silver utensils. That was Indian economy. This depositing in the bank and thinking that I am getting good interest, that is another cheating. It is another cheating. If things are not available, what will you get by getting interest? Therefore I am advising that purchase land and produce our own food. There will be no problem.

Karandhara: The inflation rate is higher than the interest rate. If you earn 5 3/4 % interest in a year, the inflation has gone up 6% in a year. So actually your money, at best it’s kept the same.

Prabhupada: The money is to be kept in cattle and grains. That is Indian economy, cattle and grains. If you have got many cows, you get milk. Milk preparation. And if you have got grain, then where is your problem? You prepare your foodstuff at home and eat and chant Hare Krsna. Where is your problem? You want to eat and live peacefully. So if you have got grains and milk, you have got enough food and there is no problem. You haven’t got to go fifty miles for your work, and then you require a tin car. So many problems. But if you get your food at home, then eat them and chant Hare Krsna and go back to home, back to Godhead. Simple thing.

Prajapati: So many people now employed in sinful activities, jobs that are to do with sinful life. If we get rid of these sinful activities, what will we find for these people to do to replace their jobs?

Prabhupada: Do pious activities. Do you mean to say we have to continue sinful activities for their job? (laughter)

Prajapati: They say like that.

Prabhupada: No, we shall give engagement.

Prajapati: Cattle industry, liquor industry, tobacco industry, all these big industries.

Prabhupada: Yes. Let them be without industry. Come to us. We shall give them food. Yes. Just like that… What is that? Mrgari, Mrgari. He was thinking that “Unless I kill animals, how I will eat, I shall live?” And Narada gave him, that “I will give you to eat. Come here.” So he became Vaisnava. So that is our propaganda.” Stop this nonsense business. If you think that ‘How you shall eat?’ I shall give you eating. Come on. “This is our program.” First of all you stop it. Then I will, see how I will give you.” Just see. When I came first I was alone. I had no shelter, no food. And how we are maintaining now thousands of people, and giving them to eat, and nice shelter? How it is possible? It is possible. Because after all, Krsna gives everything. So if they become Krsnized, everything will come. Why they bother about the sinful activities?

Once, after hearing Srila Prabhupada describe the ideal economy, one devotee asked:

“But if all transactions are done in gold, it would be very difficult to make large deals, because to carry the gold and exchange it would be very cumbersome.”

“That’s very good,” replied Prabhupada. “Why should there be big transactions? Big transactions means that people are accumulating more than they require. We don’t want big transactions. We want each person to have what they require.”

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Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare  ॐ हरे कृष्णा हरे कृष्णा कृष्णा कृष्णा हरे हरे। हरे रामा हरे रामा रामा रामा हरे हरे॥ ॐ